BZPRPG: Feedback

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  • Posted 2014-05-24 15:39:07 UTC
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  • Great ideas everyone! :) I keep coming back to this topic seeing more awesome collaborations to breathe a little zest into the game from players, so cool.

    I had a couple new ideas which I will state concisely as Kughii-possible:

     

    • Give the MNW a new section called Arcs or something like that. The section would be dedicated toward pointing players toward valid adventures that are either ongoing or just came onto the scene. This way players won't forget things like, say, Hewkii has a reward out for the kanohi Komau. Also, please see THIS blog post if you are interested in joining the MNW team! :)
    • The Wiki. Instead of focusing on characters everyone focuses on adding events. Characters are great and give a good feel for the size of the community, but at the end of the day what's needed apparently is more EVENTS in their tab. Smaller events used to be restricted to character pages, and I think that's still a good idea to avoid clutter, but when we see several characters interacting that should start popping up on the event page for the wiki. I've been working hard on locations, and I'll keep doing that until I'm finished with the canon places, but then I'll devote my time to updating the 2013 Staff Plot page as well as the Events page. As always volunteers are most welcome to chip in, or claim the a whole swath of things to do! :)
    • Send out mass PMs to inactive players. I am willing to do this, or anyone else could, but I think one or two people should craft a pre-written message asking about the lack of activity, if they're interested in playing, and if not would it be alright to delete their character post from the profiles topic. This would probably remove tons of clutter. Almost every week at least one person comes by, makes a profile, and then never jumps in.

    Those are my ideas. :)

  • Posted 2014-05-24 16:02:32 UTC
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  • The News and Discussion is actually quite intimidating.

     

    That was the reaction I had back in the day.

     

    And if a newbie comes in today, they'll probably think the same too.

    I spent months/close to a year since joining the RPG before I discovered the existence of N&D.

     

    And even then it took a few weeks to get accustomed to such a thing existing.

     

     

     

    • The Wiki. Instead of focusing on characters everyone focuses on adding events. Characters are great and give a good feel for the size of the community, but at the end of the day what's needed apparently is more EVENTS in their tab. Smaller events used to be restricted to character pages, and I think that's still a good idea to avoid clutter, but when we see several characters interacting that should start popping up on the event page for the wiki. I've been working hard on locations, and I'll keep doing that until I'm finished with the canon places, but then I'll devote my time to updating the 2013 Staff Plot page as well as the Events page. As always volunteers are most welcome to chip in, or claim the a whole swath of things to do! :)

    This, very much this.

     

    While it may be a bigger effort to start writing out every single event that has thus happened in the past, it'd certainly be easy to keep things up to date if each person playing, or even reading, something that could fall under and overarching story arc or plot event to write an article for it. Off the top of my head, some of the examples I might give as things that could be, and would help a lot when written into a wiki page would include the Princess' Party in Kentoku, the rebuilding of Pala-Koro, the fight brewing between the Piraka and everybody else in Ta-Koro, Echelon's crew showing up in Syvra, etc.

     

    If I may add, it may also be a good idea to add things that are specific to characters who are 'always there' in the timeline, most prominently staff characters. A page following the Piraka and a page following the Abettor, for example, would, in the long run, be very helpful in keeping track of the main plot.

     

    (10/10 will contribute to wiki)

  • Edited on 2014-05-24 16:11:00 by -JL-
  • Posted 2014-05-24 16:17:32 UTC
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  • Another thing-for newbies, and me, to find them, links to wiki should be everywhere. A few prominent links should be in the topics, perhaps links to relevant pages in the reference posts. Staff might consider adding them to sigs.

  • Posted 2014-05-24 16:37:14 UTC
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  • Kughii and I are chatting about the Wiki, and we're coming up with some pretty good ideas. I intend to return to it once my exams are over. And fear me...for I shall STANDARDISE! :evilgrin:

  • Posted 2014-05-24 16:55:03 UTC
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  • Thank Mata-Nui. Standardization is what we need. If you're the evil overlord I will be your malicious henchman and help purge the irregularities from the wiki.

     

    That said, here's some more stuff.

     

    There will always be the players who feel terror walking headlong into a new game, searching for things, or even attempting to make headway. Unfortunately I can't relate one cent to that personally because when I first joined I dropped a large post back in the Durrem days, sought out interaction with a passion, and went straight to the N&D declaring my existence. I just so happened to have thoroughly read the rules before posting a profile too. I got hooked because of how Tuck had described the BZPRPG in the BZPower podcast episode one month, and I'm the kind of person who reads the updated legal contracts before accepting new versions of iTunes onto my computer so naturally the first place I would go is the glaring "Rules" section. Maybe putting up more road signs for new players would help, maybe it's simply the new player mindset. As much as I'm against player elitism I will remember two things I learned from jazz bands:

    1. Always work to get better.
    2. Play at your level but always look up and reach for it.

    CRANE would be a good way to get things back in gear. Maybe we should make a CRANE topic where mentors and new players can work together to create a more cohesive bundle. Mentors might mean anyone with six months to a year of RPG experience on this site?

  • Posted 2014-05-24 17:13:00 UTC
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  • Having gone through the n00b process of being absolutely terrified of doing anything, I completely throw my support behind the re-creation of CRANE in an attempt to ease the introduction of new players into the RPG. I was lucky enough to be surrounded by people like Mef and Kittens, though back then things were a heck of a lot more active.

     

    Nowadays, getting into things would be a lot more daunting a task, with the amount of events that have gone on, things that are happening, and just how much we've moved away from canon.

  • Posted 2014-05-24 17:13:46 UTC
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  • I'll happily spearhead CRANE. Been trying to get that running for ages. Anyone want to help?

  • Posted 2014-05-24 17:21:14 UTC
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  • Nowadays, getting into things would be a lot more daunting a task, with the amount of events that have gone on, things that are happening, and just how much we've moved away from canon.

     

    This is why I think that setting up a clearer reference point for new players would be helpful, and then having CRANE around to give any remaining guidance that's needed.

  • Posted 2014-05-24 17:25:10 UTC
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  • This doesn't mean you HAVE to do it through CRANE, of course.

    I mean, I personally find that one of the best ways to help new roleplayers get experience into things is to just let them into what's happening. It's how Mangai, Krayz, myself, and a bunch of other people got their start back in the day.

    #TYBLazzy

    In any case, CRANE was always something that struck me as a bit too... I dunno, formal? Granted, something like it may be more necessary to the RPG now as opposed to way back when, given our smaller, and, let's face it, more insular community.

    I support the idea, don't get me wrong, but I personally prefer the interactions be spontaneous and without warning, as that feels the most authentic. However, as we all know, that's all too rare these days without ending equally as abruptly or on a somewhat sour note. So CRANE probably would help that problem quite a bit.

    So I guess I can sum it all up like this: CRANE's a good idea, and I think it should make resurgence, but it's not really for me. I wish you guys the best with it.

  • Posted 2014-05-24 22:23:54 UTC
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  • You know, I really agree with the points raised by Alchemist about new players. To a certain extent, this ties into the 'elitism' problem.

     

    Whenever a new post appears in the profile topic, I make it my business to read it and check out the 'quality' of the new player's profiles. More often than not, these profiles will look as though the writer had not read the rules and/or had no idea of the setting of the BZPRPG. It's very easy to scoff at the 'foolishness' of these new players, and to my shame, I have often done so.

     

    But from watching these new players integrate into the community - and from my experiences into trying to introduce other people to the RPG - I've come to the conclusion that they are not to blame.

     

    Essentially, I think the BZPRPG is not set up well for new players. It can be opaque, even intimidating, to newcomers. Sure, there's a whole load of great information for newbies - if you know where to look for it. And obviously, newbies don't know where to look.

     

    See, I think another thing we should see more of is less "scoffing at the foolishness" with newer players. That time spent scoffing could be spent crafting a PM to the newbie in question and being like "hey! I saw your character profile, and while it's good, there are some things that need to be tweaked so it's more in-line with the rules! I can help out since I've been doing this for a while!" Short version, the veterans should be the ones initiating this sort of "Can I help?" conversation with the newbies. Think of it as on-the-spot mentoring. Like CRANE, but less formal.

     

    On that same vein with characters that might need revision, I had an idea: an optional topic where players can submit their character profiles before they go onto the profiles page, and they can get assistance with revising the characters to be more in-line with the rules, less of an expy, etc. This way new players can get interaction with the community and learn some good ways of writing/developing their characters, without the hassle/fear that might come from trying to find a vet to PM and ask "Is my character okay?". And like I said, this would be purely optional, not an extra step required to making a character. Getting a character made is already tough enough as it is. Adding in "You must have someone look it over to see if it's good or not to be actually put in the profiles page" would be a major deterrent to getting people to actually want to play.

     

    Any of that seem reasonable?

  • Posted 2014-05-24 22:47:33 UTC
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  • See, I think another thing we should see more of is less "scoffing at the foolishness" with newer players. That time spent scoffing could be spent crafting a PM to the newbie in question and being like "hey! I saw your character profile, and while it's good, there are some things that need to be tweaked so it's more in-line with the rules! I can help out since I've been doing this for a while!" Short version, the veterans should be the ones initiating this sort of "Can I help?" conversation with the newbies. Think of it as on-the-spot mentoring. Like CRANE, but less formal.

     

    I and a number of other players try to do this, when we can. But the thing is, reasonably, we shouldn't have to. Things ought to be laid out so that the way the BZPRPG works is clearer for newbies.

  • Posted 2014-05-24 22:48:06 UTC
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  • Call it a "Build a Character workshop" and have everyone one pitch in ideas when someone presents a character. I like where you're going.

  • Posted 2014-05-24 23:45:26 UTC
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  • Call it a "Build a Character workshop" and have everyone one pitch in ideas when someone presents a character. I like where you're going.

    :P

     

    I wouldn't like something like this. It sounds WAAAAY too much like a character approval process, asking people what to change, what to add, what to discard. By the time your character has gone through everything, it may not be what you imagined at the start.

     

    And plus, while Approval processes work, I've always seen the BZPRPG as the one of a kind TBRPG that has never needed an Approval process.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 01:02:56 UTC
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  • I've wanted to spread my wiseness across the cosmos.

     

    Setting up mentoring sounds nice.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 02:15:35 UTC
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  • this is an ossim thread

     

     

    TL;DR - MORE ACTION, MORE FIGHTS, MORE STUFF HAPPENING THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY JOIN TO MAKE AN IMPACT ON THE GAME, MORE PLOT MOVEMENT THAT CAN STIMULATE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.

     

    ALL CAPS TO GET POINT ACROSS

     

    I was going to make a great all-encompassing post, but as I cruised through the above replies, JL nailed it.

     

    From my point of view as a noobcake, the single biggest issue(s) with the game is how slowly it moves. From the start of the game until now, very little significant has happened. I understand that the playerbase of BZPower is shrinking and real life is difficult, but that is not a legitimate excuse to make the game crawl as it does, especially considering that that is probably my biggest gripe and why I'm hardly playing right now. The staff plots (Makuta's riddle, Dark Walk adventure) are great... but even a cursory examination will show that they haven't advanced at all over a significant time period. People don't want to play if it's like that, and that causes even more inactivity, making for a terrible downward spiral. The simple way to make this happen would be to make the adventure-catalyzing staff posts simpler, shorter, quicker - rather than a two page treatise, one paragraph would suffice. We could also try to sandwich the overarching plot in some hamfisted manner of just being like, "Oh! Behold - 'such and such' has reached into his bum and pulled out a clue for the Makuta riddle! Go forth and do stuff!"

     

    Another thing we could also do is put it (the happenings of the BZPRPG) on the main page more - that way, perhaps we can entice more people who would ordinarily skip over the RPG section.

     

    I sort of get the elitism idea thing (you veterans still are kind of terrifying), but I don't feel it's the biggest problem.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 02:54:02 UTC
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  • I wouldn't like something like this. It sounds WAAAAY too much like a character approval process, asking people what to change, what to add, what to discard. By the time your character has gone through everything, it may not be what you imagined at the start.

     

    And plus, while Approval processes work, I've always seen the BZPRPG as the one of a kind TBRPG that has never needed an Approval process.

     

    As I said in my pitch for this, it was to be purely optional. As in, if you wanted to do it, you could, but you if you didn't, you wouldn't have to. It would not be an approval system. It would simply be a safe place to workshop your characters and get ideas, suggestions, and constructive criticism. There wouldn't be some arbitrary requirement like "You must have had X people looking over this character and incorporate some of their suggestions into your character". That wouldn't help anyone. Also, while it is a workshop, I'd suggest that people workshopping their characters shouldn't have to take ALL advice from everyone (unless that advice was "Please tone down your very obvious godmodded Expy of Batman into something more reasonable"), they could take ideas and use them as they see fit.

     

    All it would be is that, a workshop. It wouldn't lock out anyone from making new characters, it would give newbies the chance to interact with people of all skill levels, and maybe, just maybe, increase the quality of characters appearing in the RPG.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 03:18:51 UTC
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  • I sort of get the elitism idea thing (you veterans still are kind of terrifying), but I don't feel it's the biggest problem.

    We're not that terrifying.

     

    We're cute and cuddly and pretty much your usual RPers with a bit more experience. That's all.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 03:26:15 UTC
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  • Hubert, you are scary.

     

    The other veterans are okay I guess. I don't know I'm still quite new.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 03:35:45 UTC
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  • That's also really a thing that needs to be addressed.

     

    Vets really just interact with their other vet bros, and forget about the new kids, who are too scared to interact with the vets.

     

    Gotta bring them together more.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 03:55:32 UTC
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  • Guys, please reserve the inane banter for N&D.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 07:20:44 UTC
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  • Hubert that's a point too. I see some new players being sort of, well, ignored by the others(vets or otherwise) being not because of an elite feeling, but more of like... They don't know each other.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 09:16:01 UTC
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  • Oh yeah, before I forget, I think something we sorely need is a direct link to a BZPRPG chatbox. I'm pretty sure one exists on skype, and I've also heard of a 'staff chat' existing somewhere, but if there's a chatbox out there just for BZPRPG players, then we need quick and easy access to it. This is probably something that will boost activity a lot, if we can simply get on a chatbox and shout 'Anyone on lets interact' or something to get some stuff for your characters going.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 09:29:08 UTC
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  • It's less a "chatbox" and more of a group conversation between BZPRPGers on Skype. It's a pretty useful place yeah, and is there for more than just RPing talk (it's very, very off-topic). You can't really join it quickly and easily, per se. Gotta have a Skype account and be added to it by an existing member of the group.

     

    Also you have to be able to handle over nine hundred messages a day, ahaha.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 14:27:53 UTC
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  • Hate to be the resident n00b, but... what is this "CRANE" you speak of?

  • Edited on 2014-05-25 14:28:04 by Wazdakka
  • Posted 2014-05-25 20:43:57 UTC
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  • Coalition of Roleplayers Against Noobishness and for... Education, I think? I forget what the E was for. It was a group of vets designed to get alongside new players and help them improve their writing and get into the game.

  • Posted 2014-05-25 20:59:51 UTC
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  • Coalition of Roleplayers Against Noobishness and for... Education, I think? I forget what the E was for. It was a group of vets designed to get alongside new players and help them improve their writing and get into the game.

    So they would be sorta like tutors and commentators? Would they be helping IC, OOC, or both?

     

    Wish they had that when I joined...

  • Posted 2014-05-26 22:25:40 UTC
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  • This is one thing I think needs to change soon:

     

    An actual summary of the location somewhere. Checking over the Profiles, News and Discussion and the Rules, there is nothing at all that says that Mata Nui and the Kentoku Archipelago are the only known locations, and half of those aren't known to the other.

     

    Why do new players always make the mistake of referencing other islands?

     

    There is nothing to tell them not to do so! The only reason these mistakes are even correcting is due to helpful members of the BZPRPG that point out errors in profiles! Even then, these members can let things slip by them and not catch an error referring to Xia!

     

    This makes it so a player can read Nuju's first two posts in N&D, all the Rules and the Profiles and still miss the fact that Mata Nui is the only known island.

  • Posted 2014-05-26 23:18:18 UTC
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  • Actually, that information is hidden in Nuju's FAQ section - it is possible to find and I remember I found that piece of info when I first joined. However, I agree the Rules section needs to be made a bit less opaque and reorganized and perhaps needs to repeat some of the more important information. It is very long and intimidating, and there has to be a reason that so many new players miss important information.

  • Posted 2014-05-26 23:24:40 UTC
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  • I remember in the old rules section it was purposefully left ambiguous if there were were other landmasses.

     

    But I'm pretty sure that none of the characters including foreign species were supposed to know any other land apart from Mata Nui. They had to wash up on the island with no memories of any other place I think.

  • Posted 2014-05-26 23:35:57 UTC
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  • Being relatively new to the BZPRPG(joined a few months into the first part of the 2013 arc, if memory serves), I'm just glad I happened to immediately stumble upon a player like Tapio and then half-accidentally wind up gathering a crew of other players to help guide me in how to do all this. But yeah, had things happened differently, I probably wouldn't have stayed long and the Inika might not even exist, just because of the enormity of everything even before the introduction of Kentoku.

     

    :a::k::i:

  • Posted 2014-05-27 08:29:38 UTC
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  • Huh, I'd always thought the "no other islands" thing was there.

  • Posted 2014-05-27 09:25:36 UTC
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  • It's kind of non-explicit. Which happens to be the issue here.

  • Posted 2014-05-27 21:42:02 UTC
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  • Oh, don't get me started on the entire "which landmasses exist" thing. I'm still trying to write over my mistakes from early on because of the ambiguity involved.

     

    :a::k::i:

  • Posted 2014-05-28 07:17:17 UTC
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  • Gotta get a list of what people think to be common knowledge but isn't going.

     

    Man, there's probably a lot of things newcomers are confused about.

  • Posted 2014-05-28 08:21:32 UTC
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  • There's probably stuff veterans newbies and in-betweens all are confused about.

     

    We have to make sure everyone knows what they should know like importamt common knowledge.

     

    And it's important to know if they donor don't know what they should be knowing.

  • Edited on 2014-05-28 08:22:30 by Just Norik
  • Posted 2014-05-28 08:49:19 UTC
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  • I suppose nobody would object to me trying to make a Quick and Easy Illustrated Guide to the BZPRPG so everyone can understand the place better?

  • Posted 2014-05-28 10:07:49 UTC
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  • That sounds like a great idea. Though...

     

    I trust it's not just Microsoft Paint?

  • Edited on 2014-05-28 10:08:15 by Just Norik
  • Posted 2014-05-28 17:29:02 UTC
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  • Oh, don't get me started on the entire "which landmasses exist" thing. I'm still trying to write over my mistakes from early on because of the ambiguity involved.

     

    :a: :k: :i:

     

    This is exactly what I'm talking about. The information's all there, but it's buried pretty deep in big long staff posts with little to no pointers as to where to find it. I say again, we need an obvious and clear topic for new players.