BZPRPG: Feedback

 

Oh, don't get me started on the entire "which landmasses exist" thing. I'm still trying to write over my mistakes from early on because of the ambiguity involved.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The information's all there, but it's buried pretty deep in big long staff posts with little to no pointers as to where to find it. I say again, we need an obvious and clear topic for new players.

 

Motion seconded. A 'Quick Start' guide, if you will. Right up front and obvious, with flashing lights and 'READ ME FIRST' and all that.

 

 

Oh, don't get me started on the entire "which landmasses exist" thing. I'm still trying to write over my mistakes from early on because of the ambiguity involved.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. The information's all there, but it's buried pretty deep in big long staff posts with little to no pointers as to where to find it. I say again, we need an obvious and clear topic for new players.

Motion seconded. A 'Quick Start' guide, if you will. Right up front and obvious, with flashing lights and 'READ ME FIRST' and all that.

Fourthed. That threw me off as well.

Fifthed. A quick start guide with essential lore and rules would be perfect. It can be very simple and condensed, with hyper links out to wiki articles or other topics.

Sixthed. We might be able to pin it or combine it with the existing guide topics as well.

Zeroethed. I'm the one who suggested it in the first place. I want this badly.

Zeroethed. I'm the one who suggested it in the first place. I want this badly.

You weren't, but that's beside the point.

It seems as though there's a large consensus on this subject - take note, staffies!

Six notes, to be precise.

The note has been taken and... uh...

where did I put it...

uhhhhh

I'll remember it!

Well it seems that that is something the players are wanting. And it will definitely be helpful.

Seventhed.

Eighth'd. Definitely down for a quick start guide.

Ninthed, for good measure. This is a good idea.

If staff wants help I volunteer to pm inactive players and see of they wish to come back or have their comments removed to declutter the profile topic. There have been a few incidences of double posting there. Also, Ghosthands, Mango, and I are going to be overhauling the wiki during the summer, so links may need to be adjusted.

Seems like a pretty good idea to me.

But Kughz, peon say they don't wannt to coke back but do so anyway. You don't need to "declutter" profiles.

I'll try to overhaul my own pages... Especially since school ends in five days for me...

Lolz only three pages for me to overhaul.

I'll try to help too.

Deleting profiles of "inactive" players seems like a pretty poor precedent to set to me, too. The topic is only four pages - it's not that cluttered enough to the point where you can't just find what you're looking for with a brief use of the search function.

-Tyler

Stowing the jokes, I would like to inform you all about the CRANE (subsequently referred to as "CRANE" for convenience) in relation to the BZPRPG for a little bit so we can really consider its helpfulness in abetting activity. For future reference, the CRANE post is here.

Firstly, CRANE isn't actually dead. As noted in the blog post, the only requirement to be a member is to take its pledge to help out newer players; additionally, in spite of the attempts to come up with ways for its members to host in-game competitions and education for newer characters, membership has never been a prerequisite to join in any such activity. However, that doesn't mean it's inactive. Regardless of whether its members are united in their work, I've yet to see one stop working.

Secondly, CRANE's formality is the aforementioned oath. It has no rewards, command structure, etc. and is thus not inclined to be of strict organization. What CRANE does have is a single purpose: education. As a coalition, it never required anything else. Its services are only as applied and offered by members.

I'm not here to talk about how CRANE has done over the years, but I believe it could've been handled better and I think that leads pretty well into my feedback about the trouble with player caste in the game. In no small part, this mismanagement of the concept was due to its creator's assumptions regarding that system.

I built CRANE under the popular premise that there were two kinds of roleplayers: veterans and newbies. Newbies, I assumed, constituted a low class of toddling people universally possessing childlike and error-prone mentalities and writing styles. Veterans were the diametric opposition to newbies, knowledgeable and practiced roleplayers who had the seamless authorship newbies strove for and thus held responsibility for the newbies' eventual inductions into their echelon. I thought that there was a clearly-cut line between these two groups.

I've been through a lot since I first subscribed to that particular idea. Anyone who knows me is aware that I've built locations and relationships here, seen them struck down by the staff, and started again a few times. Yet that story is hardly unique. Regardless of their good intentions, long-standing investment in the game, or experience, I've seen "veterans" just as apt to make mistakes as those we consider new (anyone remember Dorian and Grokk's "great escape?") while "newbies" have been more prudent in their dealings and adroit in their writing with less knowledge (hey, baby). The truth is that people rise and fall and experience is only as good as its application.

In that case, how are we to define anyone as "veteran" or "new?" I believe the answer is that we keep those terms circulating only as adjectives pertaining to relative experience and not as nouns. As even the rules can only define "veterans" nebulously as "members who have been involved in the BZPRPG for a long period of time," the only boundaries we can ever create between the new and veterans (and other classes) are arbitrary, and any other connotations, all the more. We can clearly define the differences between staff and non-staff players or those who play Akiri and those who don't, but experience is not so easily measured; I would hesitate to call anyone a "veteran" regardless of experience, at least as the term has historically meant in class division.

I'd also like to concur with JL and Voxumo and extend this opinion to a piece of wisdom they talked about.

What Voxumo said rang a bell, and I feel is definitely an attitude/mentality that will only make the RP healthier:

Thrust yourselves into their rp.

But despite that, I've attempted to join into an interaction only to be ignored...........and that really doesn't help out at all. >_>

"Elites" have just as much responsibility to interact freely as anyone else. While it's easy for people to turn this into a game in which only a few select players post in the series of interactions developing their characters, it's certainly not healthy for the game, nor the players. No one should be mandated to request interaction, but it's rude and unhealthy (for both the game and the players involved) to shut others out. If one really wanted to write with only those he or she favored, anyway, why wouldn't one drop this game and leave to play that elsewhere?

There's no clear reason to divide people into separate camps based on experience in a game. It's toxic and holds us back more than any plot stagnation ever could. This is an exercise for all of us, a way to have fun and a way to learn, too. I think those are two more similarities than we have defined differences.

I agree to everything above. It hit the nail on the head to me!

I have a question for staff: What have you decided to implement, if anything, at this time?

I have a question for staff: What have you decided to implement, if anything, at this time?

Recently, I'd been too busy to give this topic the thorough read-over it deserves, or to compile and execute a to-do list from it. I'll get to this soon, though.

Thanks for the New Player's Start Here topic.  Even as someone with a couple years of gameplay under my belt with the BZPRPG I still found the timeline to be invaluable, and I'm looking forward to seeing what goes into the post with the construction sign.  I'm also happy to see staff intends to keep the timeline up to date, given the timestamp of when it was last edited.  Tyler's call for matoran sounds like an answer to some of the calls from players in this topic for more interaction with staff plot.  Thank you, staff, for listening and working to modify and shift things to include what you've heard!  

Firstly, the BZPRPG has been near stagnation for a while. Something that personally saddens me, and most likely saddens most of us. Slow paced topics, emphasis upon long, albeit beautiful super-posts, and little advancement of the plot. In the past, grand conflicts, their buildups, their enactment, and their climaxes have defined seasons. The wars between the Kin and The Santun, The Cabal of Cruelty and every other faction, the war between the Matoran and The Makuta etc. These keep the game active, and provide immense opportunities for character interaction and development. The past couple of months, while full of slow build-up and well-crafted interaction, have slogged down without such a conflict.

Secondly, I think we should be making more preparations for the probable influx of new members in coming years. As let's face it, most of us are used to this tight-knit, less active community. A more mature community, with long winded posts and members who've played for years. We've grown  unused to the frantic activity, and chaotic (Albeit fun) atmosphere of the BZPRPG six, or even three years ago. Unused to the numbers of inexperienced players, unused to young members, and unused to both the possible confusion and fresh air that comes with them. How long has it been since a person under the age of twelve has played the BZPRPG? Someone who has barely written anything but a school paper? Someone new to the line, or RPGing of any type? To me, the CRANE program is a step in the right direction, but should be but the first step in efforts to integrate new members. I don't mean teach the new members grammar or whatnot, but just to remember that many of our new members will be children and act accordingly.

Thirdly, I think there should be a kind of BZPRPG History compiled. I think it would be amazing for newer members to learn what happened before. The heroes and the villains, the players who controlled them, the major plots and events. The game has such a rich lore, it would be an utter pity for it to pass out of memory with each gone veteran. Perhaps have a BZPRPG historian, go through the wikis, and interview the eldest veterans for their experiences in game.

I've never played the RPG before and I don't know if this is sacrilege for me to suggest, but here goes. Has it ever been considered to make the BZPRPG into much more of a tabletop RPG like D&D? Doing so would introduce much more chance and would also allow for control over OP feats.

I've never played the RPG before and I don't know if this is sacrilege for me to suggest, but here goes. Has it ever been considered to make the BZPRPG into much more of a tabletop RPG like D&D? Doing so would introduce much more chance and would also allow for control over OP feats.

Now you know.

It is.

There's a set-based RPG/fight game called Arena over in Games and Trivia, and over the years there's been some Bionicle RPGs involving dice or a d20 system, but the BZPRPG is a text-based rpg, bound only to the limitations of current rules and one's imagination.

Here's an idea; a sort of simple program that walks someone through character creation. Drop down lists, basic lore info, the works. Perhaps it could be customizable to allow for other RPGs to use it. 

What's wrong with the current info?

We have a wiki for lore and history, and we have the rules and profiles pages, which clearly explain what's allowed and what isn't. 

What's wrong with having a sort of simple tutorial for character creation and a utility for those who want to be able to refine their character profile writing? A quick little executable that walks the user through writing a profile. 

A podcast episode discussing character isn't a bad idea, though an actual walkthrough is... Excessive, I think. We made a New Players Starter topic for a reason, after all, and it compiles all necessary aspects of the lore and answers roughly ninety percent of all possible canon divergences relevant. The only ones not covered are ones so specific that no one even thinks about them until they're an issue. 

An actual program, though? With dropdown menus? And customization?

...

...

Let me know when I draw a salary from this position and I'll think about a coding project that long.

Yeah... Krayz is right. Do you know how long it would take to put a program like that together? Why bother when all the information needed is right here in the topics? All it takes is a little effort to find and read it all. If players want to be part of the game, they shouldn't expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. 

Why can't I ever suggest something that the staff likes...

It can't be that complicated. Dropdown menus, blank fields, export to .txt.

I'm no programmer, but if people can make entire games in 48 hours, a character creator can't be that hard.

It's not a terrible idea. Just... Not one that's needed.

Plus.... I think there are existing programs that you could use, of it strikes your fancy.

Who the have you been talking to that can make a game in two days?

Ludum Dare competitions. You have 48 hours to make a game, preferably in Java, and submit it. Some pretty good games have come out of it.

As for Scorp's comment, what programs would you think would work? 

I'm not a coding expert to any degree, but a program like the one you propose would take weeks, maybe months to design.

As someone who does some computer programming (and intends to go into a computer science related field)... It isn't quite that simple. Those forty eight hour games are cranked out, usually, by teams of very skilled individuals and they don't do anything else during those forty eight hours. Even then the result is rough and in need of refinement. And they're for challenges, not useful production.

What you're suggesting isn't something easily created. For it to be customizable for other games there would need to be an interface for other people to use it without having to alter the most basic code, which means coding a way to read and alter the program from within it. Dropdown menus would have to be coded into the intended application, and so on.

It's not that it's a bad idea, or that we don't like it. It's that it isn't really needed to begin with, and it realistically couldn't be done. Not because the coding itself is impossible but because only two active staff members have any knowledge of programming, all of us are in school, and all of us have lives on top of running the game. 

Trying to make a programmed guide to information already present, on top of running the game, just isn't really possible. That said the sentiment is noted and we might be able to make a podcast episode or video that deals with the character creation process.

So, not a walkthrough program.

As for Roman;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludum_Dare

One-person teams. All content and code must be created by a single person, within the 48 hour period. The Ludum Dare Jam allows for 72-hour dev cycles, dev teams and private-source code, but that's not part of the main contest.

I'm not saying they're complex games, but they're rather nice.

Speaking as someone who has made a program that takes input, forms it into a baseball profile, and exports the entire thing to a text file... That ain't the hard part. The hard part is all the extra features you want tacked on, like customizability, drop down menus, a GUI that looks like something halfway decent instead of fricking terminal... Basically anything that would even get it to the level of a basic text file. XD